Heroes of the Storm Forums

Hey all,

Wondering what exactly it is about Thrall that makes him so undesirable in competitive play. It seems to me he brings good utility with Earthquake or Sundering, good sustainability in lane and in team fights, and savage damage when he gets going with Windfury.

The only thing I can think of is that he's especially vulnerable to CC as an auto attacker.

Any thoughts?

1. Walk-up syndrome.

2. Melee.

3. Easily counterable.

1). This is the problem a lot of outdated champions in League of Legends have. Look at Mordekaiser - they just gave him insane damage on his Q, but he has 0 gapclosers except for a small MS steroid (Similar to Thrall). Morde gets kited all day and has to flank or something just to get his initial damage off. Then, if he flanks, he's too squishy to stay alive.

2). Being melee is always a negative, and always requires compensation. For Thrall, it's Frostwolf's Resilience. Unfortunately this doesn't really "compensate" for being Melee at all - it actually just adds to snowballiness if you can get into (and stay) in Melee Range.

Similar Heroes have Unrelenting Pursuit PLUS lifesteal, Ravage plus shields plus CC, Dive AND Sweeping Strike AND Metamorphosis.

The closest to Thrall is The Butcher, who, like Thrall, is burst-based even though his AAs are through the roof (He can do insane sustained DPS just fine but his combo is burst), but The Butcher has similar lifesteal abilities (Very bursty lifesteal), as well as a very long range, Unstoppable gap closer.

Compare to an MS Steroid + a Root Skillshot that can be body-blocked.

3). As you said, he's especially vulnerable to CC. All melee are, but some Melee have better options for dealing with CC. Illidan, for instance, can Metamorphosis to recuperate and prevent chain-CC if the chain-CC is not timed perfectly. He also has Evasion/ First Aid/ Stoneskin - defensive CDs that can be popped prematurely if the enemy team can 100-0 you with chain CC. After all that, THEN Illidan has weak lifesteal to keep him sustained up.

Thrall however, just has his very strong passive in lieu of really any defensive abilities whatsoever. Which means again, he's like The Butcher in that he MUST auto-attack to survive, but he has no way to guarantee himself a way in.

Would Windfury not count as a type of gap closer, with the movement speed? I suppose that's not guaranteed, but even still. I can just envision Earthquake being such a strong heroic when you throw it down with a coordinated team behind you. I do see your point in though that if you're going melee assassin, you might as well just pick up The Butcher, as he's just all-around more solid (although arguably less utility in his kit).



Zeratul stands out to me as an anomaly, but I suppose the argument for Zeratul being such a consistently strong pick begins and ends with Blink as a gap closer and escape tool? And his stealth curing the "walk up syndrome"?

Interesting analysis, thanks for the response. I guess especially with the rework on Cleanse we won't be seeing Thrall in the competitive scene for a long while.

Yea I mentioned a couple times all he had was an MS steroid. It's a walk-up deal. Walking up is very slow, even with a strong MS steroid like 35%, compared to a Blink or an Unrelenting Pursuit. Blink is instant and, if done from out of vision, impossible to see coming. Unrelenting Pursuit is telegraph but you can't stop him so it doesn't matter too much.

From when he was played at BlizzCon, I said the Butcher was Thrall 2.0. Very similar kit. Thrall needs E + W to close the gap. Butcher presses E. Thrall needs his E for massive damage - Butcher gets that passively, and after 16 it's basically a 24/7 Windfury.

The only thing Thrall has on Butcher is that he can hit any target to heal up, The Butcher has to hit his branded target. But Thrall needs that because he probably can't GET to the target he wants - The Butcher presses E to guarantee at least a couple AAs on that target.

The Butcher also has a higher HP pool, allowing him to waltz out of danger in a lot of cases when he can't stick to the branded target. If you get speed increase talent, The Butcher's brand even gives him Windfury's speed increase (Though many times you'd get Spell Shield).

Which, since we're already mentioning it, The Butcher can actually get Spell Shield because he doesn't need Crave Flesh to be strong with his guaranteed gapcloser, while Thrall has to talent for his E to get his pseudo-lifesteal to proc more often.




I think Zeratul has probably the best compensation for being Melee. He has stealth and Blink, and after Wormhole he may as well be ranged with his in-and-out damage. He doesn't need the snowbally lifesteal mechanic - he has burst and safety. Other Melee Assassins have a way in and no way out, even the bursty ones.

And of course, Zeratul is always hailed for having one of the best Heroics in the game - Void Prison.


Personally, I'm not a fan of Thrall. I liked him when he first came out, and he was very briefly played in competitive. After his nerfs, Arthelon said he was "Hard enough to play in competitive before the nerfs." - even when he was considered OP in solo-queue he was hard to pull off just because of how he worked, how he needed to stick to targets with no real means to do so, and how he didn't have many ways to get around CC (Keep in mind this was when basically Uther was the only Cleanse Hero, but now Cleanse was nerfed).

He can still pubstomp solo-queue, and he can still be a huge threat if you start winning a fight. Competitive is quite different than solo-queue.

I recommend playing Thrall when your opponent is melee-stacked, especially if your opponent doesn't have something like a Jaina to slow you forever. Having a hard Support and a Soft Support can let you go raid boss mode as well - for instance Tassadar + Uther.

Mostly the same rules with the other Melee Assassins - but Thrall can clean house easier than some others once he starts winning the fight.

Great response, thanks. Didn't realize by MS Steroid you meant Movement Speed Steroid, haha. I appreciate the clarification.

Sure thing! Sorry, probably should've clarified that sooner.

I did want to say that my response wasn't intended to dissuade you from playing Thrall or anything though, for every Hero lower than 50% winrate there are probably a dozen players who main those Heroes and play them just fine. If a Hero being weak makes you not like them any longer, I don't know why you'd main it, but if you can play it well and enjoy it, there's no reason to not play them.

Thrall does have his up-sides. He's a powerful 1v1 laner due to his strong sustain and dueling potential, lategame he can 1v1 any Hero in the game, his good single-target damage is useful for helping his team quickly dispatch structures, Boss Camps, or other Neutral Objectives, and so on.

I'm around level 8 with Thrall, and will probably buy him and get him to 10. I personally have a great time playing with him, just because he puts out so much damage, which is really what lead to me wondering about his viability in the first place.